Is new Nissan X-Trail a great stepping stone or the worst of both worlds?

11 September 2022
Already available in the US since last year as the Nissan Rogue, the European Nissan X-Trail takes a different approach to electric drive.

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And first reviews are here, consumption around 6,4l/100km, well that is even worse than I expected :(

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MaxMcDee, 13 Sep 2022I absolutely love this - great conversation, lots of facts and fun - thank you :)This discussion certainly made me to check the Nissan X-Trail information available.
Not a car for me, as it is an SUV, but I can't wait to see what this powertrain can deliver in terms of efficiency and later down the line the reliability.

I really hope Nissan will develop something like this in a compact version - like new Leaf ;)

I absolutely love this - great conversation, lots of facts and fun - thank you :)

Fearghast, 13 Sep 2022Oh, I had no idea there should be a 1.5l variant of Cross. I thought it will just be refreshed... moreThis Nissan second generation system, the third generation engine will have a high thermal efficiency of 50%, the motors will have a greater efficiency.
I have not test drive the Qashqai myself, but seen videos of the 190Hp system getting 4.4L/100km in city driving, on the highway driving at 100-110kmh, the fuel economy was hitting 6+ l/100km. On paper the system is rated at 5.3l/100km combined. Note the Qashqai does not have AWD, but have similar power to Toyota cross AWD.
For comparison the 2.0L corolla cross have combined efficiency of 4.8 combined on paper, in real world highway drive it getting 6+ l/100km.for further reference the cross AWD is rated an USA EPA 37 MPG or 6.3l/100km combined, no better than the rav4 AWD
Note I wrote 1.5, my mistake, it should be 1.8, however as stated before the system is very weak at 121HP, so yes it will be more efficient as the engine is seriously detune for efficiency, unlike the 2.0l version.

nuffy, 13 Sep 2022The battery is 2.1kwh, usable is 1.8kwh, there nothing much to figure out, they did it from 20... moreActually they are two crosses, yaris and corolla.

Fearghast, 13 Sep 2022Oh, I had no idea there should be a 1.5l variant of Cross. I thought it will just be refreshed... moreThe battery is 2.1kwh, usable is 1.8kwh, there nothing much to figure out, they did it from 2010, that to overcome the loss was to use efficient engine like the 1.3 use in the Lotus/Infiniti combined with efficient electric system, like flux motors which have efficiency of 99%, by making the motor more efficient. Old motors had 80% efficiency, and engines did not have high thermal efficiency of 35 - 40% that why series hybrid was less efficient back then, things have evolve, since 2010 the motor Nissan use in the leaf have 96% efficiency, even at 10,000rpm,it still maintain 89% efficiency, That motor was replace by the EM57, which is more efficient. Nissan now use the EM47. The Nissan 1.5 VC-T has an thermal efficiency of 42%.

nuffy, 13 Sep 2022Nissan also had prototype of this with real EV range check out the Infiniti emerg EThat is a really nice concept car. It is interesting that hybrids are quite common these days, plug ins raise in popularity and there are more models than ever before, yet range extenders are pretty much dead currently.
There must be something wrong with them, I do not see, because a concept of keeping the engine at optimal revs sounds like the best thing for hybrid efficiency.
Sadly, the most popular was only i3 Rex and that is BMW, so it is hard to blame anything but reliability.

nuffy, 13 Sep 2022x-trail does not compete with corolla cross, it competes with RAV4 FWD and AWD, which many tes... moreOh, I had no idea there should be a 1.5l variant of Cross. I thought it will just be refreshed 1.8 and 2.0.
That 1.5l variant makes me wonder if it is lifted from Yaris, or it is 5th gen version of Yaris engine.
But to a Nissan, I highly doubt the engine will be quiet for most of the time - the battery is only 1 kWh, and it will be depleted fairly quickly under any load - IMHO it will quietly hum most of the time as revving it high in intervals would be quite distracting for a driver. If I am googling correctly, Corolla is using 1.3 kWh battery, and it can get you like 2 km tops in a city before the engine kicks off ... and that is a small, compact car.
I drive hybrid/Plugin for a while and tested Jazz which I consider as audibly similar to Nissan solution, based on that, my expectations are not really high.
+ Jazz is great, but new Yaris is simply better in terms of efficiency, so I guess there is some trade off. I am not sure what, Nissan might figured it out, but I remain sceptical on efficiency front.

Fearghast, 12 Sep 2022You should really mark this article as a PR, because if it is not, it is utterly wrong and mis... morewhich one are you referring to the one with 120HP or the one with 195 Hp? If you are referring to 120HP version, yes it more efficient, but comes at a price of 0-60 in 11secs and noisy powertrain, but also it has less power compare to 201HP in x-trails, if you are referring to 2.0l hybrid then there are few you tube video will prove you wrong that they get far off from the claim MPG.
If you are questioning the noise of the Nissan e-power the engine shut off a lot in rural areas, as it can travel 3 miles up to 80KMH on ev power alone, before battery deplete and the engine fire up, and when it does many said you do not notice it. Toyota hybrid has a much nosier powertrain as the engine is mostly on and the whine of the CVT.

Fearghast, 12 Sep 2022My bad, so it is like Jazz, but without a possible mechanical linkage. Rage extender it would... moreNissan also had prototype of this with real EV range check out the Infiniti emerg E

Fearghast, 12 Sep 2022My bad, so it is like Jazz, but without a possible mechanical linkage. Rage extender it would... morex-trail does not compete with corolla cross, it competes with RAV4 FWD and AWD, which many tests drive and did not get the claim 4.8 l/100km, many got between 5.8 to 6.6 in real world test. Furthermore corolla cross comes in two tune, a1.5 liter hybrid making 120 HP or 2.0l making 195HP. The 2.0L hybrid version is not much better than the RAV4 in real world.
The e-power is self charging hybrid very different for Toyota power split which combines the powertrain together, Nissan engine only comes on when the battery need assist or recharge that self charging as it shut off when not needed, Toyota system on the other hand, engines come on when ever it goes over 30 KMH, and the three power source work together and engine only shut off under light loads, that is not self charging. Also Nissan may have some similarities to the Jazz but differ, as Honda clutch the wheels and use a transmission, Nissan use a simple gearbox, with 4 gears, which two drive generator via the engine known as step up and another two know as reduce found in EVs, drive the wheels via motor. Nissan motor and generator are over 96% efficient.

MaxMcDee, 12 Sep 2022It is as far from PR as it can be - we just don't do it. Corolla Cross is a 2.0l hybrid w... moreBTW, Corolla Cross Hybrid 32 MPG? I just realized that is quite an odd number, considering Corolla and even RAV4 are presented with much lower fuel consumption.
I was not able to find an official number, but it is odd indeed - RAV4 is still on 4th gen and Corolla is getting 5th gen next year.

MaxMcDee, 12 Sep 2022It is as far from PR as it can be - we just don't do it. Corolla Cross is a 2.0l hybrid w... moreMy bad, so it is like Jazz, but without a possible mechanical linkage.
Rage extender it would be, if it actually had some battery like i3 REX.
It is a hybrid, and it is much worse than EV because of noise, possibly low voltage ... and you know fuel consumption :-D
Even Mazda has some prototype of this thing MX 30 with rotary engine and that is something ... like this, but with a real, pure EV range.

Fearghast, 12 Sep 2022You should really mark this article as a PR, because if it is not, it is utterly wrong and mis... moreIt is as far from PR as it can be - we just don't do it. Corolla Cross is a 2.0l hybrid with claimed 32 mpg efficiency - twice as much as the X-Trail plus the Nissan is not a hybrid technically - it is a range extended EV. From a tech point of view - completely different animal - no need for gearbox, clutch, propshaft for 4WD. So it's neither an EV nor the Hybrid - but is it what we need? Is it better than hybrids? Is it better than EVs?

  • nick warren

At least some of the weak points of EV are touched here..
Seriously, battery powered EV's are just not the right solution for everyone..
Power storage technologies are way behind to make the EV revolution happen..

Anonymous, 12 Sep 2022There's been a change in government in Aus, the denialists are gone and it looks like we&... moreWhat's better than good news on Monday morning? :)

You should really mark this article as a PR, because if it is not, it is utterly wrong and misleading.
This is a typical, run-of-the-mill hybrid - self charging means regular hybrid, non plugin.
There are other hybrids in this category that do the same or even better - Toyota, Honda, Subaru even Ford and others carmakers produce regular hybrid, self charging, SUVs.

Hybrids are excellent and if they are made good, they can certainly reach the claimed fuel consumption, in the hands of a good driver they can usually be even more efficient than claimed numbers.

If you want to see an efficient Hybrid, take a look at Corolla Cross with 5th gen.

  • Anonymous

There's been a change in government in Aus, the denialists are gone and it looks like we're full steam ahead on renewables now.

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